Can a referee stop a game and award the opposite team a free kick if a player mouths off to his team-mate for not passing to him?

Yes. But he can only do it in order to administer a caution/red card. I'd imagine in this circumstance he stopped play to book the player for dissent towards his own player. Dissent (as well as foul and abusive language) can be punishable if it's directed towards anyone, not just the referee.

If he stops it though, it's an indirect free kick to the opposing team.

Heres how it went and you can tell me if this was bad refereeing.
Ball breaks in our box. Player thuds it clear. over the heads of opposing teams defence to create a 1vgoalie. Midfielder is annoyed that he never got a pass so swears at his own player. as he has not realised that this clearance has just sent teammate through on the goalie. Referee spots the one on one with goalie. blows his whistle points to where the player who swore was standing (right outside his own box) and awards a direct free kick and doesnt book anyone. they score from direct free kick.

Logie48, Having looked at several definitions of the word dissent I can't for the life of me see how two players disagreeing can be called dissent.
As far as issuing a caution for foul or abusive language goes that law is a joke. It's ignored more than 99% of the time at all male adult levels of football (I don't know enough about ladies or kids football to comment), if it was to be applied very few games would ever finish as both teams would be down to a couple of players each. I'm not talking about giving the ref a mouth full of abuse but swearing between players.
Having been at the game in question I have to ask why there weren't cautions issued to every player from both teams for swearing? At the very least the ref was whimsical and selective in when, how and who to apply the laws of the game to, I've a lot more I'd like to say on the matter but prefer to wait till it has been through the proper channels.

He can only stop the game to administer a caution/red card, so he got that wrong if he hasn't taken any action. If the player in question swore, it would go under foul & abusive. As for the restart, the free kick is taken from where the offending player was when he swore which was outside the box. He got that right. But it's indirect, and not direct.

It is rare. But if you see 2 players having a full blown argument with each other, to the point where the referee has to stop play, there is nothing else it can come under. Same if a player is having an argument with a spectator at the side of the pitch, which i've had aswell.

I will highlight that swearing should come under foul & abusive language, which is itself a red card offence. But it's down to the referee's tolerance, and everyone is different. I saw a Sunday Scottish cup tie earlier in the season where a player who missed a chance, shouted f**k into his shirt, and was sent packing by the referee. It wasn't directed at anyone at all. Personally, I let this go. But you've got to manage it if it becomes out of hand, especially in public parks and the likes.

A lot of it comes down to common sense. I had a game once where the pitch backed on to a field and about 100 yards down the field there was allotments. A man from the allotments came up to the fence and got my attention. He asked me to stop the players from any sweraing whatsoever or he would report the home team to the local council. My attitude was that I would try and manage it as best I could but udner no circumstances was I going up to 22 men in a game of amateur football and aksing them not to swear. I would have lost the players before a ball was even kicked and the game would have been very difficult to control.

So in all gentlemen,and i thank you for the clarification, if the game is not getting out of hand, and the referee has made 2 mistakes out of three when applying the written rules, would you say this was a BAD case of refereeing.

Yes, it was a mistake. But just like players, referees can make them from time to time.

As I said earlier, it is rare to stop play for dissent/foul & abusive. So some referees might forget the details regarding the right procedures. It happened to me earlier this season reffing an u17's game when a keeper dropped the ball and picked it up again. I was that busy trying to get into position for the kick out, I saw him do it, but my mind was elsewhere. I then remembered about 10 seconds later that it wasn't permitted and thought, i've made an erse of this one. It was too late to call it back.

Remember we walk out onto the pitch with just under 150 pages of laws to cram into our heads, and have to rhyme it off, almost instantly, at any given time.

I am well aware of this logie, and i really do think sometimes you have a thankless role.
The biggest problem in the game was the inconsistency. It was blatant.
In addition, the referee can makes mistakes like this on a regular basis as you say he has copious laws to follow throughout the game. So do the players, however they get penalised heavy for their mistakes. Ref makes a mistake, it is forgotten about. Player makes a mistake and it is heavily punished, via suspensions, massive fines, club fines. Those guys are walking on to the same field and need to remember the same 150 laws of the game, and being human, it is the realm of possibility that they can forget just the same as the refs.
On a similar note, committees also have an abundance of rules and regulations to follow, a small step out of line and they are heavily penalised with point deductions and ridiculous fines. No room for error, even if they are a new up and coming team (who just learning all the rules can easily forget them just the same as refs).
Everyone except from ref's feel the wrath of the governing bodies if they step out of line. As you admitted you guys have just as much chance of messing up as the teams the committees and the players do.

Did you receive a fine for the mentioned mistake above? Just out of interest, what was the correct procedure to deal with this?

I agree with your point. Clubs and players can be taken to task for even the smallest of misdemeanours, like missing a players postcode on a teamsheet (I heard a team being fined for this). But it seems referees are only directly accountable to the SFA, or a league, but only if a complaint has been made. We are not fined and we don't receive suspensions. The only real punishment we can receive is to be denied promotion within the SFA when they come along. But in saying that, most refs don't have any aspirations to move up anyway, especially those at amateur level. I'd imagine if any league received a number of complaints regarding a particular referee, then they could remove him from the referees list.

The thing is, there is no directive from the SFA for referees to keep up to date with the laws of the game. Pass the initial exam and your ready to go. Yes, we are encouraged to attend association meetings. But some referees don't bother and are still in the 90's regarding their knowledge of the laws, which is worrying.

I read the (rather biased ) report on the website of your team and the match in question. Seems as though you guys had a few incidents which you weren't happy about. Go down the right channels and i'm sure your league will explain to you their course of action for dealing incidents like this.



No one complained at the time, so both teams were probably none the wiser. I knew the law existed. It was just a lapse of concentration from myself, I was out of position for the kick out and was more focused on this than watching exactly what the keeper was up to. Fortunately we are not fined , but the decision I should have made when the keeper picked the ball up again was an indirect free kick in the box to the opposing team.

Logie48, Me? Write biased match reports? I'm upset you could even think such a thing lol

Dreggin' - I don't know about your reports being biased but I can tell you yer pal Joe is a dab hand at biased postings on here about the "football authorities", "ridiculous fines" etc. Pair, hard done by Dreghorn - I don't think!

not just my thoughts morrist if you read logies last comment i think he said that he is in agreement with me.
i thought we could have went a whole thread on this forum without a meaningless post (Thanks for telling me about the wee man at the allotments AOM_REF. Great wee yarn) and/or morris butting in with a sarcastic comment. Obviously not!!
Since you are here morris, what is your thoughts on the original question? Refereeing mistake or not?

Joe....sorry if I've upset you that much and also sorry that you feel my posting was meaningless. My comments were based entirely on your statements concerning club committees "a small step out of line and they are heavily penalised with point deductions and ridiculous fines." My point is that the deduction of points and the level of fines are what our clubs, including yours, have decided they should be. And points are not deducted from clubs for a "small step out of line" and I think you know that. I accept that my comment on "pair hard done by Dreghorn" was a bit sarcastic....but pretty mild compared to a lot of the comments made on the forum.

As for the incident you have referred to, I've no problem with what logie48 has said on it. Though its not true that refs can't be suspended : they can. I know of one who was suspended last year in Ayrshire following a complaint being lodged.

From the league i'd imagine.

I've never heard of a referee being suspended from the SFA to the extent where they can't referee, at low level. In my association anyway. Unless it is a serious allegation.

Morris i meant that last comment in the lightest of heart. It never came across that way though. Understand rules are rules and are there to be followed.
To clarify my previous post I am simply stating that a referee, through inability to keep up with rules (backed up by logies "still in the 90's comment), inability to keep up with play, and inability to stay consistent, honest, and trustworthy, can in effect cost teams 3 points. Now this for the most part goes unnoticed.

A committee member, player, or team shows that same neglect, dis concern to the rules (that as a new team they are still trying to learn) they get penalized.
That is not fair in my opinion, not only for the clubs effected by bad refereeing, but also the referees.

And I will give a small example of why I do not think it is fair on the referees
Eg.
Ref #1: An inconsistent type, an out of date type, a type of ref that is known to have let external factors (feelings) dictate his decisions.

Ref #2: (Lets call him logie:)) A professional, who regularly attends classes to keep up with the rules the scenarios that the normal amateur game brings to the table. A ref that sees every scenario as it is.

Both refs are awarded the same as in both get paid and both are still allowed to ref at this level. The continually practicing refs get honored in a similar manner to the ones that show the rules neglect.

So why should the logies of this world bother?

Only thing I can say here is; Take away the inconsistent referees and you have a shortage of referees. That means no football. It's a thankless task refereeing I can assure you. The retention rate is poor. Only thing, in my opinion, to combat the problem regarding the knowledge of the laws Joe, is to introduce a retest every 3/4/5 years for every referee who reapplies for membership to the SFA each year. Money, money, money. As for fitness. Again, if you bring in fitness tests for class 5/6 referees, then about 50% would fail them.

There are rewards for good referees. They will go up the levels, I can assure you. They move up the ranks to junior, and then senior if they are lucky. Some good referees stay at amateur level because they have no desire for promotion. The ones who are not so good will stay as they are.

Some of the definitions of laws (and words) in this thread are horribly incorrect or poorly related. Dissent, by word or action, can only be towards the referee. Players arguing with each other should be managed on the field by the referee. If the players in question persist then they may be cautioned for Unsporting Behaviour. They may also be ordered off for using Offensive, Abusive or Insulting language or gestures. The use of 'Industrial Language', for example, players cursing themselves for poor play or mistakes, short arguments between teammates or opposition players, sidelines, etc., is different. It can be difficult for the referee to make that distinction, but that's the job we take on. As mentioned above, referees need to manage these situations. I'm sorry Logie, but a referee should know he can't stop the match to award a free kick for Unsporting Behaviour, without issuing a caution. There may be 170 pages, but there are only 17 Laws and basic rules like this should'nt be difficult to remember.

From the laws of the game;





Graeme, I think he's meaning misconduct which is worthy of a caution and not a foul.

Tell me where i've said you can stop play and not issue a caution? My argument throughout this thread is you can't stop play, unless you are doing so to issue a caution for the offence committed.

And everything on this thread is bang on with regards to the LOTG, as far as i'm concerned.

I asked a senior official from my association about this, just to be totally clear and he said that most of the time cautions for this wouldn't always come under dissent. I asked a player arguing with both a team mate and spectators.

His exact response;



I've never cautioned a player for this myself, so took the law at face value. I suppose a caution for this behaviour could come under a number of reasons.

Just reading some of the posts above and ONCE AGAIN the referee's integrity I.e. Not honest and trustworthy is rolled out.

ALL players will appeal for decisions they know is not their's - dishonest!
Some players feign or simulate - dishonest e.g. Rivaldo
Some players deliberately handle but play on - dishonest e.g. Maradona, Henry
Some players lie that they didn't do something then replays show they did - dishonest e.g. John Terry

Yet so many players have come onto this forum and think us referees want to throw AMATEUR football matches in our spare time!
One word for this - PATHETIC!
The irony is that the ref is the most honest person a football park. There will always be refs of variable ability. Always be refs that just have a bad day. And always there will be inconsistency - just like players!!!!

Logie48 and Graeme, Thanks for those clarifications it's always good to here it from the refs viewpoint and it's always good to learn.

Logie48 From another thread, yes it's the same one.

MisterMagoo I would agree with you in almost every case, most times when I think a ref has got ot wrong it's down to three things.
He has a better knowledge of the laws than me.
He saw the incident from another angle and saw something I couldn't.
His vision was blocked and he didn't see the incident.
Bu this is an exception, I'm not going into all the details as they are on another thread but we do believe we have good reason to doubt the refs integrity.